The current state of the EV market - not great, Bob!

[Blueprint]

Meanwhile Kia is launching the EV4 with a lower msrp than the Fiat 500e... The Fiat always has rebates though. Nevertheless, with the EV4 sedan priced liked a Civic Hybrid and the EV5 priced like gas competitors, it will be interesting to watch.

[Johnnymac]

Meanwhile Kia is launching the EV4 with a lower msrp than the Fiat 500e... The Fiat always has rebates though. Nevertheless, with the EV4 sedan priced liked a Civic Hybrid and the EV5 priced like gas competitors, it will be interesting to watch.

I expect it'll be the same outcome, a big boom of sales for the first 6-12 months followed by a massive slowdown, followed by rebates and low rates, followed by limited production, ending with it leaving our market.

Have to remember, a lot of customers trust a hybrid more than a full EV or even PHEV,  it to mention this is a KIA product, so even less customer trust.  I would take a Corolla or Civic Hybrid over it every day of the week.

[Oliver]

I love how people say, it's not selling because of the price, no shit, the issue is at the price people want to pay they lose their ass on every sale, even worse than they currently are.

Hard to say if they are losing money or not (at least at or near MSRP) in the grand scheme of things. Supposedly VW expects EVs to reach profit margin parity with ICE vehicles next year.

I would be willing to bet they won't come close to that, otherwise why would they be moving so swiftly away from EVs?

I don't think we can equate VW (potentially?) canceling an EV model in the North American market as moving swiftly away from EVs.

Not just VW, Porsche is also making a hard left from EVs also.  That's both ends of the VAG spectrum changing directions, looks to me they realized something over the last 2-3 years that has made them rethink going all in on EVs.

To me that implies having fewer EV models which isn't the case. Porsche is still going to release all the EVs they had planned except that there will also be ICE and PHEV versions. As far as I know VW is going to keep building all their current EV models and they all seem to sell in decent numbers in the EU.

I do agree that the companies that hedged their bets (like BMW) are better off than those that created bespoke electrified platforms (like Mercedes and Porsche).

Our North American viewpoint is also skewed by what we see here. BEV market share in Germany, the UK, and China is over 30%.

[Johnnymac]

I love how people say, it's not selling because of the price, no shit, the issue is at the price people want to pay they lose their ass on every sale, even worse than they currently are.

Hard to say if they are losing money or not (at least at or near MSRP) in the grand scheme of things. Supposedly VW expects EVs to reach profit margin parity with ICE vehicles next year.

I would be willing to bet they won't come close to that, otherwise why would they be moving so swiftly away from EVs?

I don't think we can equate VW (potentially?) canceling an EV model in the North American market as moving swiftly away from EVs.

Not just VW, Porsche is also making a hard left from EVs also.  That's both ends of the VAG spectrum changing directions, looks to me they realized something over the last 2-3 years that has made them rethink going all in on EVs.

To me that implies having fewer EV models which isn't the case. Porsche is still going to release all the EVs they had planned except that there will also be ICE and PHEV versions. As far as I know VW is going to keep building all their current EV models and they all seem to sell in decent numbers in the EU.

I do agree that the companies that hedged their bets (like BMW) are better off than those that created bespoke electrified platforms (like Mercedes and Porsche).

Our North American viewpoint is also skewed by what we see here. BEV market share in Germany, the UK, and China is over 30%.

Ahh, yes of course they are still going to sell them, they already sink billions into developing all of them.  But any of the ones they were thinking about developing are being moth balled and focus has shifted back to ICE vehicles.

Just because 25% of your lineup are EVs doesn't mean that is 25% of your sales come from EVs and definitely not 25% of profits.  In most cases the profit margin on an EV is considerably less than a similarly priced ICE vehicle in their lineup.

I tend to think the reason behind most of those countries adoption of EVs is mostly government interference and possibly in chinas case the domestic product support.