The current state of the EV market - not great, Bob!

[Blueprint]

The Lightning is officially dead, as noted in the other thread. Ford has also the an EV full-size van in favor  of a hybrid version of the next Transit.

They are reworking the Lightning into a "Ramcharger", adding an ICE engine to act as a generator. So expect the frunk to go away.

Funny enough, I was picking up a press car yesterday morning and a Ford PR person was there to loan a shiny black '25 Lightning to a winter olympic athlete Ford sponsors.

[Revelations]

Add the ID Buzz to the death list.....
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/electric-cars/vw-cancels-id-buzz-for-2026-as-dealers-warn-it-might-be-over/ar-AA1SGxkC?ocid=BingNewsVerp

[Johnnymac]

Add the ID Buzz to the death list.....
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/electric-cars/vw-cancels-id-buzz-for-2026-as-dealers-warn-it-might-be-over/ar-AA1SGxkC?ocid=BingNewsVerp

Yeah but we are all supposed to be driving EVs within 9 years...how can such a high demand, super hyped, remake of a legend (VW bus), and have it not be successful?!

Well had they made it with a 2.0L diesel engine with 900kms of range with the exact same styling and a price point of around $50k and these things would be everywhere. 

[Tortoise]

The main reason it didn't sell was the price. I recall the selling price was a lot higher than originally assumed/stated. So, that killed a lot of interest right off the bat. 

The second reason is the abysmal range. It was pretty dumb to release an "adventure vehicle" with such an unusable range.

A PHEV with the 1.5T would have been a great combo.

They also should have been 7/8ths the size. They're massive.

Shame, because I'd love to have one as a family hauler.

[Blueprint]

They also should have been 7/8ths the size. They're massive.

Shame, because I'd love to have one as a family hauler.

The "shorty" version sold in Europe might have been better, but reading 'Murica right was never one of VW's forte.

[GreatBigAbyss]

It must have cost VW a pretty penny to develop this vehicle, only to kill it off a year later.  What a waste.

At least Ford has the F150d development, and all they need to work on was drivetrain tech.  Still massive sunk cost, though.

[Johnnymac]

The main reason it didn't sell was the price. I recall the selling price was a lot higher than originally assumed/stated. So, that killed a lot of interest right off the bat. 

The second reason is the abysmal range. It was pretty dumb to release an "adventure vehicle" with such an unusable range.

A PHEV with the 1.5T would have been a great combo.

They also should have been 7/8ths the size. They're massive.

Shame, because I'd love to have one as a family hauler.

I would still pick a TDI engine over a PHEV from VW.  One they do very well, offer an excellent balance of fuel economy, performance, and reliability.

I don't think a shorter one would sell about the same, if they offered both versions I would assume sales would be stronger but not double the sales.

I love how people say, it's not selling because of the price, no shit, the issue is at the price people want to pay they lose their ass on every sale, even worse than they currently are.

[Tortoise]

I would still pick a TDI engine over a PHEV from VW.  One they do very well, offer an excellent balance of fuel economy, performance, and reliability.

I am not sure modern TDIs are all that reliable.  The emissions systems are pretty complex.  I've had ~$3k of warranty work covered by my Dieselgate warranty. Which I guess isn't too bad, but it would erase any fuel savings.

[Johnnymac]

I would still pick a TDI engine over a PHEV from VW.  One they do very well, offer an excellent balance of fuel economy, performance, and reliability.

I am not sure modern TDIs are all that reliable.  The emissions systems are pretty complex.  I've had ~$3k of warranty work covered by my Dieselgate warranty. Which I guess isn't too bad, but it would erase any fuel savings.

That's peanuts compared to some of the horror stories of VW group electric vehicles, all of which you would only want to own under warranty.

I have heard there are shops that have tunes and other adjustments for the last gen TDI engines that improve reliability while at the same time improving basically everything but emissions.

[Oliver]

It must have cost VW a pretty penny to develop this vehicle, only to kill it off a year later.  What a waste.

At least Ford has the F150d development, and all they need to work on was drivetrain tech.  Still massive sunk cost, though.

I don't think it's being killed off outside of NA. It's also been on the market for three years (aside from North America) and is on the same platform as a bunch of VW, Audi, and Ford EVs.

[Oliver]

I love how people say, it's not selling because of the price, no shit, the issue is at the price people want to pay they lose their ass on every sale, even worse than they currently are.

Hard to say if they are losing money or not (at least at or near MSRP) in the grand scheme of things. Supposedly VW expects EVs to reach profit margin parity with ICE vehicles next year.

[Johnnymac]

I love how people say, it's not selling because of the price, no shit, the issue is at the price people want to pay they lose their ass on every sale, even worse than they currently are.

Hard to say if they are losing money or not (at least at or near MSRP) in the grand scheme of things. Supposedly VW expects EVs to reach profit margin parity with ICE vehicles next year.

I would be willing to bet they won't come close to that, otherwise why would they be moving so swiftly away from EVs?

[Oliver]

I love how people say, it's not selling because of the price, no shit, the issue is at the price people want to pay they lose their ass on every sale, even worse than they currently are.

Hard to say if they are losing money or not (at least at or near MSRP) in the grand scheme of things. Supposedly VW expects EVs to reach profit margin parity with ICE vehicles next year.

I would be willing to bet they won't come close to that, otherwise why would they be moving so swiftly away from EVs?

I don't think we can equate VW (potentially?) canceling an EV model in the North American market as moving swiftly away from EVs.

[Johnnymac]

I love how people say, it's not selling because of the price, no shit, the issue is at the price people want to pay they lose their ass on every sale, even worse than they currently are.

Hard to say if they are losing money or not (at least at or near MSRP) in the grand scheme of things. Supposedly VW expects EVs to reach profit margin parity with ICE vehicles next year.

I would be willing to bet they won't come close to that, otherwise why would they be moving so swiftly away from EVs?

I don't think we can equate VW (potentially?) canceling an EV model in the North American market as moving swiftly away from EVs.

Not just VW, Porsche is also making a hard left from EVs also.  That's both ends of the VAG spectrum changing directions, looks to me they realized something over the last 2-3 years that has made them rethink going all in on EVs.

[RRocket]

I love how people say, it's not selling because of the price, no shit, the issue is at the price people want to pay they lose their ass on every sale, even worse than they currently are.

Hard to say if they are losing money or not (at least at or near MSRP) in the grand scheme of things. Supposedly VW expects EVs to reach profit margin parity with ICE vehicles next year.

I would be willing to bet they won't come close to that, otherwise why would they be moving so swiftly away from EVs?

I don't think we can equate VW (potentially?) canceling an EV model in the North American market as moving swiftly away from EVs.

Not just VW, Porsche is also making a hard left from EVs also.  That's both ends of the VAG spectrum changing directions, looks to me they realized something over the last 2-3 years that has made them rethink going all in on EVs.

I agree. Every automaker who were near to "all in" on EVs are rethinking their position.