Current State of the Car market

[Johnnymac]

I was thinking about this today, when was the last time you were excited about a new vehicle entering the market? 

I can't get overly excited by any EV, any CUV, any pickup, any minivan, or any exotic or car that is north of $100k.

It's been a couple of years since the GR Corolla, Type R/S, new BRZ/GT86, GTI/R, and Caddy Blackwings.

So few cars offer a manual anymore, very few wagons and the ones that are exciting are uber expensive.

I find myself googling about rumours of future sports cars from Toyota or the next generation Miata, outside of those I really can't find much in the pipelines that are interesting.

We were so spoiled even just a decade ago, two decades ago was epic, and now we are entering a lull that I really hope won't be the new "normal" in the car market.  It's quite depressing to go to all the car websites and it being 90% about CUVs and EVs.

[HannibalSmith]

I'm curious about the upcoming M3, both gas and quad motor electric, as well as the Boxster/Cayman EV.

Also wondering if Ferrari will end up making that modern version of a manual F40 for Lewis and other rich people.

[Johnnymac]

I'm curious about the upcoming M3, both gas and quad motor electric, as well as the Boxster/Cayman EV.

Also wondering if Ferrari will end up making that modern version of a manual F40 for Lewis and other rich people.

Meh, auto only, electric assisted, north of $100k, can't get excited about any of those. 

The F40 is a cool idea, but they will make a handful and cost the same as a third world countries GDP.

[Firm]

It's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore. Is there a roadster available today outside of the Miata? A decent Grand Tourer under $100K (no, Mustang doesn't count)?

Better question is, why is it so? If you believe in the powers of a free market, then the customer is to blame because they choose with their wallets and chose lame boring CUVs. Maybe a factor of younger generations having less disposable income and less interest in cars than older generations? Alternatively, one could argue that this is what happens when the free market is overruled by government oversight; regulations handcuffing what the manufactures can offer, and the manufactures in turn pushing this stuff on the customer.

[Johnnymac]

It's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore. Is there a roadster available today outside of the Miata? A decent Grand Tourer under $100K (no, Mustang doesn't count)?

Better question is, why is it so? If you believe in the powers of a free market, then the customer is to blame because they choose with their wallets and chose lame boring CUVs. Maybe a factor of younger generations having less disposable income and less interest in cars than older generations? Alternatively, one could argue that this is what happens when the free market is overruled by government oversight; regulations handcuffing what the manufactures can offer, and the manufactures in turn pushing this stuff on the customer.

I've heard people state it's because of the shrinking middle class as the reasons why sports cars are becoming hard to find at an affordable level.

I also think that some manufacturers are not investing much of any time or money into these types of vehicles.  Just look at the current generation Mustang and Nissan Z, both of which I feel were "mailed in" efforts from Ford and Nissan due to a lack of competition and not having a very high bar to cross.

It doesn't help that a lot of car enthusiasts just don't buy new vehicles.  They live in the used market where their dollar goes further and they can buy cars they dreamed about 20 years ago owning.

Yes and also governments have been pushing the whole fuel efficiency and pollution barriers for awhile, incentivizing electric vehicles. 

It's quite depressing to look ahead another decade.  My 4 year old nephew is unlikely to ever buy a brand new manual sports car in his lifetime.

[Gurgie]

My buddy is in the process of getting a 2026 Z4 M40i Roadster with a manual... at least he's doing his part & then in 5 - 10yrs someone will have a nice used car to buy 

[Firm]

It's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore. Is there a roadster available today outside of the Miata? A decent Grand Tourer under $100K (no, Mustang doesn't count)?

Better question is, why is it so? If you believe in the powers of a free market, then the customer is to blame because they choose with their wallets and chose lame boring CUVs. Maybe a factor of younger generations having less disposable income and less interest in cars than older generations? Alternatively, one could argue that this is what happens when the free market is overruled by government oversight; regulations handcuffing what the manufactures can offer, and the manufactures in turn pushing this stuff on the customer.

I've heard people state it's because of the shrinking middle class as the reasons why sports cars are becoming hard to find at an affordable level.

I also think that some manufacturers are not investing much of any time or money into these types of vehicles.  Just look at the current generation Mustang and Nissan Z, both of which I feel were "mailed in" efforts from Ford and Nissan due to a lack of competition and not having a very high bar to cross.

It doesn't help that a lot of car enthusiasts just don't buy new vehicles.  They live in the used market where their dollar goes further and they can buy cars they dreamed about 20 years ago owning.

Yes and also governments have been pushing the whole fuel efficiency and pollution barriers for awhile, incentivizing electric vehicles. 

It's quite depressing to look ahead another decade.  My 4 year old nephew is unlikely to ever buy a brand new manual sports car in his lifetime.

Yeah, lots of enthusiasts do go used to afford the cars they dreamt about....that's the depressing part, when there's nothing new worth dreaming about, then what's the next generation of enthusiasts look like.

Pretty confident I'll never buy anything new...just not interested in depreciating trash. If I woke up tomorrow and had an unlimited budget, the only new vehicle I'd even consider would be a 3/4 ton truck, full jam Duramax, solely for hauling all the cool old junk I'd acquire 

[Johnnymac]

My buddy is in the process of getting a 2026 Z4 M40i Roadster with a manual... at least he's doing his part & then in 5 - 10yrs someone will have a nice used car to buy 

See, now that's what I like to hear, only problem is that vehicle likely won't be in its current state for much longer and the next generation is far from a promise.

[Johnnymac]

It's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore. Is there a roadster available today outside of the Miata? A decent Grand Tourer under $100K (no, Mustang doesn't count)?

Better question is, why is it so? If you believe in the powers of a free market, then the customer is to blame because they choose with their wallets and chose lame boring CUVs. Maybe a factor of younger generations having less disposable income and less interest in cars than older generations? Alternatively, one could argue that this is what happens when the free market is overruled by government oversight; regulations handcuffing what the manufactures can offer, and the manufactures in turn pushing this stuff on the customer.

I've heard people state it's because of the shrinking middle class as the reasons why sports cars are becoming hard to find at an affordable level.

I also think that some manufacturers are not investing much of any time or money into these types of vehicles.  Just look at the current generation Mustang and Nissan Z, both of which I feel were "mailed in" efforts from Ford and Nissan due to a lack of competition and not having a very high bar to cross.

It doesn't help that a lot of car enthusiasts just don't buy new vehicles.  They live in the used market where their dollar goes further and they can buy cars they dreamed about 20 years ago owning.

Yes and also governments have been pushing the whole fuel efficiency and pollution barriers for awhile, incentivizing electric vehicles. 

It's quite depressing to look ahead another decade.  My 4 year old nephew is unlikely to ever buy a brand new manual sports car in his lifetime.

Yeah, lots of enthusiasts do go used to afford the cars they dreamt about....that's the depressing part, when there's nothing new worth dreaming about, then what's the next generation of enthusiasts look like.

Pretty confident I'll never buy anything new...just not interested in depreciating trash. If I woke up tomorrow and had an unlimited budget, the only new vehicle I'd even consider would be a 3/4 ton truck, full jam Duramax, solely for hauling all the cool old junk I'd acquire 

If I had you DIY skills and enjoyment in the process I too would likely go used.  You are a rare breed my friend.

If my vehicle was totalled today I would just replace it with the same vehicle, in fact if I won the lotto I would still keep this vehicle as my daily.  If that wasn't an option, man I don't know what I would get, probably just the GR Corolla, can't see myself in an automatic car and can't see myself buying a Hyundai again, so not much other options in the new market.

And yes, what do kids dream about driving that is on the market now?  Also, will they even be functional and reliable long term with the massive amount of tech in them, or will owner just scrap them when they become too expensive to replace key components.

[Oliver]

It's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore.

FWIW the only 1/2 ton that doesn't offer a V8 is the Tundra.

[Oliver]

I think there's a whole bunch of factors at work here:

• EU emission regs have killed manuals in the Golf R, GTI, and Minis and possibly other models
• Increasingly people don't want to compromise the capabilities of their vehicles. The days of having something relatively impractical as a daily driver are long gone and thus people want crossovers and trucks with AWD/4WD. On top of that not many people are interested in having a second vehicle that is possibly seasonal. That kills a large part of the market for coupes and convertibles that used to be bought as daily drivers.
• People are just generally less interested in cars. There's a few reasons for this but I think a lot of younger people see cars as a necessary evil rather than something they desire to own. Not surprising given the high cost of ownership and the traffic levels that many people have to contend with.
• Chasing better fuel economy has resulted in the commoditization of engines and transmissions, making cars even more generic. I've owned four different cars with four different 2.0Ts and there's not a whole heck of a lot that distinguishes those motors from each other even if the horsepower spread between them was nearly 100.

[Firm]

It's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore.

FWIW the only 1/2 ton that doesn't offer a V8 is the Tundra.

That's fair, but RAM just added the HEMI back, pretty sure they ran a year or two without it, no? GM recalled the 6.2s. I don't have the numbers, but I am sure that the vast majority of 2025 model year trucks are not V8s at this point.

[Johnnymac]

I think there's a whole bunch of factors at work here:

• EU emission regs have killed manuals in the Golf R, GTI, and Minis and possibly other models
• Increasingly people don't want to compromise the capabilities of their vehicles. The days of having something relatively impractical as a daily driver are long gone and thus people want crossovers and trucks with AWD/4WD. On top of that not many people are interested in having a second vehicle that is possibly seasonal. That kills a large part of the market for coupes and convertibles that used to be bought as daily drivers.
• People are just generally less interested in cars. There's a few reasons for this but I think a lot of younger people see cars as a necessary evil rather than something they desire to own. Not surprising given the high cost of ownership and the traffic levels that many people have to contend with.
• Chasing better fuel economy has resulted in the commoditization of engines and transmissions, making cars even more generic. I've owned four different cars with four different 2.0Ts and there's not a whole heck of a lot that distinguishes those motors from each other even if the horsepower spread between them was nearly 100.

That is all true, and no denying it.  The question is, will there be a resurgence of fun cars someday in the future, or has that time passed.

There is just so many uninspiring offering and the public just eat that stuff up.  Everyone seems to be content to drive appliances and my wife is no different with her CR-V, but at least I balance it out with something that is interesting.

I think maybe why it is so depressing for me is because I'm a new car guy, I don't buy used.  I like having a warranty and a full history of how the car was treated.  My options are getting less and less.  Not to mention my 4 year old nephew is into dinky cars and monster trucks, I would love to continue to cultivate this interest but to what end?  So one day he can buy an EV that drives him to places?

[Oliver]

That is all true, and no denying it.  The question is, will there be a resurgence of fun cars someday in the future, or has that time passed.

Anytime that people say there aren't enough fun cars on the market, others will argue that we're in a golden era. Fun means different things to different people. I know younger car enthusiasts who don't understand the appeal of cars that us elder millennials and gen Xers put on pedestals and only like newer cars.

Electrification of cars certainly means a shift away from the kind of cars we have traditionally thought of as fun, but new offerings will still be fun for someone.

There is just so many uninspiring offering and the public just eat that stuff up.  Everyone seems to be content to drive appliances and my wife is no different with her CR-V, but at least I balance it out with something that is interesting.

Most people always drove appliances – it's just that Civics turned into CR-Vs and Tauruses turned into Escapes. I guess the difference is that a lot of those mainstream models offered trims aimed at enthusiasts as well but it's not as if the mass population has ever overwhelmingly chosen particularly interesting cars.

I think maybe why it is so depressing for me is because I'm a new car guy, I don't buy used.  I like having a warranty and a full history of how the car was treated.  My options are getting less and less.  Not to mention my 4 year old nephew is into dinky cars and monster trucks, I would love to continue to cultivate this interest but to what end?  So one day he can buy an EV that drives him to places?

I think it's absolutely silly to be hung up on only buying new cars when there are literally decades of great cars to choose from. Yes, there is an inherent risk with buying used but there's also plenty of ways to mitigate that risk.

[Gurgie]

I think it's absolutely silly to be hung up on only buying new cars when there are literally decades of great cars to choose from. Yes, there is an inherent risk with buying used but there's also plenty of ways to mitigate that risk.

^completely this!! I've been fortunate enough to buy new DD's the past few time, but before that it was usually used. And then on the fun side all have been great!! My 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo was fantastic... took me a while to find the right one, but it was great & quite reliable with minimal upkeep & maintenance. I drove it home almost 12hrs from Grand Rapids to Ottawa after flying down to pick it up... and it ran like a champ. I still search for them & see them in the $20k range and think to myself what a great balanced little fun car for that kinda money. Fast enough to be fun & not lose your license