I was thinking about this today, when was the last time you were excited about a new vehicle entering the market?
I can't get overly excited by any EV, any CUV, any pickup, any minivan, or any exotic or car that is north of $100k.
It's been a couple of years since the GR Corolla, Type R/S, new BRZ/GT86, GTI/R, and Caddy Blackwings.
So few cars offer a manual anymore, very few wagons and the ones that are exciting are uber expensive.
I find myself googling about rumours of future sports cars from Toyota or the next generation Miata, outside of those I really can't find much in the pipelines that are interesting.
We were so spoiled even just a decade ago, two decades ago was epic, and now we are entering a lull that I really hope won't be the new "normal" in the car market. It's quite depressing to go to all the car websites and it being 90% about CUVs and EVs.
I'm curious about the upcoming M3, both gas and quad motor electric, as well as the Boxster/Cayman EV.
Also wondering if Ferrari will end up making that modern version of a manual F40 for Lewis and other rich people.
Quote from: HannibalSmith on Jul 17, 2025, 05:40 PMI'm curious about the upcoming M3, both gas and quad motor electric, as well as the Boxster/Cayman EV.
Also wondering if Ferrari will end up making that modern version of a manual F40 for Lewis and other rich people.
Meh, auto only, electric assisted, north of $100k, can't get excited about any of those.
The F40 is a cool idea, but they will make a handful and cost the same as a third world countries GDP.
It's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore. Is there a roadster available today outside of the Miata? A decent Grand Tourer under $100K (no, Mustang doesn't count)?
Better question is, why is it so? If you believe in the powers of a free market, then the customer is to blame because they choose with their wallets and chose lame boring CUVs. Maybe a factor of younger generations having less disposable income and less interest in cars than older generations? Alternatively, one could argue that this is what happens when the free market is overruled by government oversight; regulations handcuffing what the manufactures can offer, and the manufactures in turn pushing this stuff on the customer.
Quote from: Firm on Jul 18, 2025, 11:35 AMIt's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore. Is there a roadster available today outside of the Miata? A decent Grand Tourer under $100K (no, Mustang doesn't count)?
Better question is, why is it so? If you believe in the powers of a free market, then the customer is to blame because they choose with their wallets and chose lame boring CUVs. Maybe a factor of younger generations having less disposable income and less interest in cars than older generations? Alternatively, one could argue that this is what happens when the free market is overruled by government oversight; regulations handcuffing what the manufactures can offer, and the manufactures in turn pushing this stuff on the customer.
I've heard people state it's because of the shrinking middle class as the reasons why sports cars are becoming hard to find at an affordable level.
I also think that some manufacturers are not investing much of any time or money into these types of vehicles. Just look at the current generation Mustang and Nissan Z, both of which I feel were "mailed in" efforts from Ford and Nissan due to a lack of competition and not having a very high bar to cross.
It doesn't help that a lot of car enthusiasts just don't buy new vehicles. They live in the used market where their dollar goes further and they can buy cars they dreamed about 20 years ago owning.
Yes and also governments have been pushing the whole fuel efficiency and pollution barriers for awhile, incentivizing electric vehicles.
It's quite depressing to look ahead another decade. My 4 year old nephew is unlikely to ever buy a brand new manual sports car in his lifetime.
My buddy is in the process of getting a 2026 Z4 M40i Roadster with a manual... at least he's doing his part & then in 5 - 10yrs someone will have a nice used car to buy ;D
Quote from: Johnnymac on Jul 18, 2025, 12:36 PMQuote from: Firm on Jul 18, 2025, 11:35 AMIt's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore. Is there a roadster available today outside of the Miata? A decent Grand Tourer under $100K (no, Mustang doesn't count)?
Better question is, why is it so? If you believe in the powers of a free market, then the customer is to blame because they choose with their wallets and chose lame boring CUVs. Maybe a factor of younger generations having less disposable income and less interest in cars than older generations? Alternatively, one could argue that this is what happens when the free market is overruled by government oversight; regulations handcuffing what the manufactures can offer, and the manufactures in turn pushing this stuff on the customer.
I've heard people state it's because of the shrinking middle class as the reasons why sports cars are becoming hard to find at an affordable level.
I also think that some manufacturers are not investing much of any time or money into these types of vehicles. Just look at the current generation Mustang and Nissan Z, both of which I feel were "mailed in" efforts from Ford and Nissan due to a lack of competition and not having a very high bar to cross.
It doesn't help that a lot of car enthusiasts just don't buy new vehicles. They live in the used market where their dollar goes further and they can buy cars they dreamed about 20 years ago owning.
Yes and also governments have been pushing the whole fuel efficiency and pollution barriers for awhile, incentivizing electric vehicles.
It's quite depressing to look ahead another decade. My 4 year old nephew is unlikely to ever buy a brand new manual sports car in his lifetime.
Yeah, lots of enthusiasts do go used to afford the cars they dreamt about....that's the depressing part, when there's nothing new worth dreaming about, then what's the next generation of enthusiasts look like.
Pretty confident I'll never buy anything new...just not interested in depreciating trash. If I woke up tomorrow and had an unlimited budget, the only new vehicle I'd even consider would be a 3/4 ton truck, full jam Duramax, solely for hauling all the cool old junk I'd acquire ;D
Quote from: Gurgie on Jul 18, 2025, 01:19 PMMy buddy is in the process of getting a 2026 Z4 M40i Roadster with a manual... at least he's doing his part & then in 5 - 10yrs someone will have a nice used car to buy ;D
See, now that's what I like to hear, only problem is that vehicle likely won't be in its current state for much longer and the next generation is far from a promise.
Quote from: Firm on Jul 18, 2025, 02:54 PMQuote from: Johnnymac on Jul 18, 2025, 12:36 PMQuote from: Firm on Jul 18, 2025, 11:35 AMIt's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore. Is there a roadster available today outside of the Miata? A decent Grand Tourer under $100K (no, Mustang doesn't count)?
Better question is, why is it so? If you believe in the powers of a free market, then the customer is to blame because they choose with their wallets and chose lame boring CUVs. Maybe a factor of younger generations having less disposable income and less interest in cars than older generations? Alternatively, one could argue that this is what happens when the free market is overruled by government oversight; regulations handcuffing what the manufactures can offer, and the manufactures in turn pushing this stuff on the customer.
I've heard people state it's because of the shrinking middle class as the reasons why sports cars are becoming hard to find at an affordable level.
I also think that some manufacturers are not investing much of any time or money into these types of vehicles. Just look at the current generation Mustang and Nissan Z, both of which I feel were "mailed in" efforts from Ford and Nissan due to a lack of competition and not having a very high bar to cross.
It doesn't help that a lot of car enthusiasts just don't buy new vehicles. They live in the used market where their dollar goes further and they can buy cars they dreamed about 20 years ago owning.
Yes and also governments have been pushing the whole fuel efficiency and pollution barriers for awhile, incentivizing electric vehicles.
It's quite depressing to look ahead another decade. My 4 year old nephew is unlikely to ever buy a brand new manual sports car in his lifetime.
Yeah, lots of enthusiasts do go used to afford the cars they dreamt about....that's the depressing part, when there's nothing new worth dreaming about, then what's the next generation of enthusiasts look like.
Pretty confident I'll never buy anything new...just not interested in depreciating trash. If I woke up tomorrow and had an unlimited budget, the only new vehicle I'd even consider would be a 3/4 ton truck, full jam Duramax, solely for hauling all the cool old junk I'd acquire ;D
If I had you DIY skills and enjoyment in the process I too would likely go used. You are a rare breed my friend.
If my vehicle was totalled today I would just replace it with the same vehicle, in fact if I won the lotto I would still keep this vehicle as my daily. If that wasn't an option, man I don't know what I would get, probably just the GR Corolla, can't see myself in an automatic car and can't see myself buying a Hyundai again, so not much other options in the new market.
And yes, what do kids dream about driving that is on the market now? Also, will they even be functional and reliable long term with the massive amount of tech in them, or will owner just scrap them when they become too expensive to replace key components.
Quote from: Firm on Jul 18, 2025, 11:35 AMIt's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore.
FWIW the only 1/2 ton that doesn't offer a V8 is the Tundra.
I think there's a whole bunch of factors at work here:
- EU emission regs have killed manuals in the Golf R, GTI, and Minis and possibly other models
- Increasingly people don't want to compromise the capabilities of their vehicles. The days of having something relatively impractical as a daily driver are long gone and thus people want crossovers and trucks with AWD/4WD. On top of that not many people are interested in having a second vehicle that is possibly seasonal. That kills a large part of the market for coupes and convertibles that used to be bought as daily drivers.
- People are just generally less interested in cars. There's a few reasons for this but I think a lot of younger people see cars as a necessary evil rather than something they desire to own. Not surprising given the high cost of ownership and the traffic levels that many people have to contend with.
- Chasing better fuel economy has resulted in the commoditization of engines and transmissions, making cars even more generic. I've owned four different cars with four different 2.0Ts and there's not a whole heck of a lot that distinguishes those motors from each other even if the horsepower spread between them was nearly 100.
Quote from: Oliver on Jul 21, 2025, 01:03 PMQuote from: Firm on Jul 18, 2025, 11:35 AMIt's all trash, can't hardly get a 1/2 ton pickup with a V8 anymore.
FWIW the only 1/2 ton that doesn't offer a V8 is the Tundra.
That's fair, but RAM just added the HEMI back, pretty sure they ran a year or two without it, no? GM recalled the 6.2s. I don't have the numbers, but I am sure that the vast majority of 2025 model year trucks are not V8s at this point.
Quote from: Oliver on Jul 21, 2025, 02:23 PMI think there's a whole bunch of factors at work here:
- EU emission regs have killed manuals in the Golf R, GTI, and Minis and possibly other models
- Increasingly people don't want to compromise the capabilities of their vehicles. The days of having something relatively impractical as a daily driver are long gone and thus people want crossovers and trucks with AWD/4WD. On top of that not many people are interested in having a second vehicle that is possibly seasonal. That kills a large part of the market for coupes and convertibles that used to be bought as daily drivers.
- People are just generally less interested in cars. There's a few reasons for this but I think a lot of younger people see cars as a necessary evil rather than something they desire to own. Not surprising given the high cost of ownership and the traffic levels that many people have to contend with.
- Chasing better fuel economy has resulted in the commoditization of engines and transmissions, making cars even more generic. I've owned four different cars with four different 2.0Ts and there's not a whole heck of a lot that distinguishes those motors from each other even if the horsepower spread between them was nearly 100.
That is all true, and no denying it. The question is, will there be a resurgence of fun cars someday in the future, or has that time passed.
There is just so many uninspiring offering and the public just eat that stuff up. Everyone seems to be content to drive appliances and my wife is no different with her CR-V, but at least I balance it out with something that is interesting.
I think maybe why it is so depressing for me is because I'm a new car guy, I don't buy used. I like having a warranty and a full history of how the car was treated. My options are getting less and less. Not to mention my 4 year old nephew is into dinky cars and monster trucks, I would love to continue to cultivate this interest but to what end? So one day he can buy an EV that drives him to places?
Quote from: Johnnymac on Jul 21, 2025, 05:15 PMThat is all true, and no denying it. The question is, will there be a resurgence of fun cars someday in the future, or has that time passed.
Anytime that people say there aren't enough fun cars on the market, others will argue that we're in a golden era. Fun means different things to different people. I know younger car enthusiasts who don't understand the appeal of cars that us elder millennials and gen Xers put on pedestals and only like newer cars.
Electrification of cars certainly means a shift away from the kind of cars we have traditionally thought of as fun, but new offerings will still be fun for someone.
QuoteThere is just so many uninspiring offering and the public just eat that stuff up. Everyone seems to be content to drive appliances and my wife is no different with her CR-V, but at least I balance it out with something that is interesting.
Most people always drove appliances – it's just that Civics turned into CR-Vs and Tauruses turned into Escapes. I guess the difference is that a lot of those mainstream models offered trims aimed at enthusiasts as well but it's not as if the mass population has ever overwhelmingly chosen particularly interesting cars.
QuoteI think maybe why it is so depressing for me is because I'm a new car guy, I don't buy used. I like having a warranty and a full history of how the car was treated. My options are getting less and less. Not to mention my 4 year old nephew is into dinky cars and monster trucks, I would love to continue to cultivate this interest but to what end? So one day he can buy an EV that drives him to places?
I think it's absolutely silly to be hung up on only buying new cars when there are literally decades of great cars to choose from. Yes, there is an inherent risk with buying used but there's also plenty of ways to mitigate that risk.
Quote from: Oliver on Jul 22, 2025, 09:02 AMI think it's absolutely silly to be hung up on only buying new cars when there are literally decades of great cars to choose from. Yes, there is an inherent risk with buying used but there's also plenty of ways to mitigate that risk.
^completely this!! I've been fortunate enough to buy new DD's the past few time, but before that it was usually used. And then on the fun side all have been great!! My 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo was fantastic... took me a while to find the right one, but it was great & quite reliable with minimal upkeep & maintenance. I drove it home almost 12hrs from Grand Rapids to Ottawa after flying down to pick it up... and it ran like a champ. I still search for them & see them in the $20k range and think to myself what a great balanced little fun car for that kinda money. Fast enough to be fun & not lose your license :D
My preference is new, it's not that I wouldn't buy used, just that it isn't my first choice, for the reasons I listed above.
If no one buys the new fun cars, of course they are going to leave the market.
People who only buy used cars and then complain about current new cars being boring is a bit ass backwards. I get that you are planning for the future used vehicle but someone has to buy it new first.
And yes, young people will think being driven to work by a computer as being fun, that ain't my jam.
Two things I'd buy new; A Cadillac CT5 Blackwing with a 6 speed, and while I'm at the dealership I'd buy a 3/4 Ton Sierra crew cab long bed with the 6.6 GAS engine (no AFM etc). All this small turbo, CVT, plasticky, giant screen, and above all the pseudo "off road" look just turns me off new vehicles altogether.
I really miss the old days when I was a kid. Patently waiting for the Autumn issues of Car & Driver, Motor Trend, etc to land in my mailbox with all the specs and details of the new models coming out.
Quote from: Revelations on Jul 22, 2025, 04:53 PMTwo things I'd buy new; A Cadillac CT5 Blackwing with a 6 speed, and while I'm at the dealership I'd buy a 3/4 Ton Sierra crew cab long bed with the 6.6 GAS engine (no AFM etc). All this small turbo, CVT, plasticky, giant screen, and above all the pseudo "off road" look just turns me off new vehicles altogether.
I really miss the old days when I was a kid. Patently waiting for the Autumn issues of Car & Driver, Motor Trend, etc to land in my mailbox with all the specs and details of the new models coming out.
I can think of worse ways of spending over $200k. I haven't had a car mag membership for almost a decade. They just got to the point where they were mostly filler and ads.
It kinda sucks, generally, for an enthusiast unless you got tons of cash. All the same vehicles with largely the same powertrains, all faux "adventure offroad" that will only see the mall parking lot, so many urban cowboys in their lifted polished trucks with clean beds, no more manuals really, no exciting sports cars anymore just a sea of same CUVs and same EVs - hey those are what people with money actually buy - and they are ideal for 90% of what the public use cars for - so why not keep making them ad nauseum. I have not stepped into a dealership showroom recently, and I have absolutely zero desire to do so for any manufacturer right now.
Seems the last golden age of cars was 15 years ago, but I guess that has always been the case, rose tinted glasses and so on.
My future stable will likely be an IS250 AWD beater (reliable) and an Alfa with a Busso for summer car.
The Audi A8 is biting the dust, another car line extinct.
Not good: Subaru has stopped taking orders for the WRX in Japan. Apparently the current car won't pass upcoming local market emissions & noise regs.
It should remain in production for other markets, at least we all hope...
Quote from: Blueprint on Mar 18, 2026, 10:04 AMThe Audi A8 is biting the dust, another car line extinct.
Considering how few they sell I'm not shocked. The Mercedes S class has always been the standard and will likely be the last one standing in that category.
Quote from: Blueprint on Mar 19, 2026, 09:44 AMNot good: Subaru has stopped taking orders for the WRX in Japan. Apparently the current car won't pass upcoming local market emissions & noise regs.
It should remain in production for other markets, at least we all hope...
Considering the current WRX is sort of "meh" I would assume Subaru will either come out with a new generation in the next couple of years, or it'll bite the dust like the hatchback version and the STI.
Quote from: Johnnymac on Mar 19, 2026, 05:24 PMQuote from: Blueprint on Mar 18, 2026, 10:04 AMThe Audi A8 is biting the dust, another car line extinct.
Considering how few they sell I'm not shocked. The Mercedes S class has always been the standard and will likely be the last one standing in that category.
Surprisingly, in the US the 7-series has outsold the S-class by a fairly wide margin for the last couple of years.