Gas Price Update

[Revelations]

Having driven a 13 year old Chevy Volt off and on for the past few years with ZERO problems I can say with certainty I'd buy a PHEV without hesitation. I get 45 km of EV range (enough usually for my daily chores) and don't hesitate to take long trips knowing the ICE generator is there. I could only imagine how much better a new Prius is compared to the old Chevy. If GM had continued to refine and improve the Voltec technology I'm sure they'd have a class leading product like Toyota. My fancy pants new scanner shows all 96 hybrid battery cells are still showing near perfect health, car now has 220,000 km.

[GreatBigAbyss]

And yet they cancelled it.  Proves my point. 

The Volt was a fantastic product.  As good as my Prius Prime, against which it competed?  I don't know.  Hybrid efficiency wasn't as good as the Prius, but it had a longer EV range, so pluses and minuses.  Point is, it was competitive.  And it turns out to be a reliable vehicle, still extremely sought after.

And GM fucking dropped the drivetrain outright.

[Johnnymac]

And yet they cancelled it.  Proves my point. 

The Volt was a fantastic product.  As good as my Prius Prime, against which it competed?  I don't know.  Hybrid efficiency wasn't as good as the Prius, but it had a longer EV range, so pluses and minuses.  Point is, it was competitive.  And it turns out to be a reliable vehicle, still extremely sought after.

And GM fucking dropped the drivetrain outright.

You say it proves your point, and I'm not disputing the goodness of the Volt, but you both ignore the cost of development and if they actually recouped the cost of that.  I'd be willing to bet that they cancelled it due to the cost benefit analysis that showed it was a loser on the financial sheets.

[RRocket]

And yet they cancelled it.  Proves my point. 

I disagree.

They lost money on every single Volt they sold. Even the 2nd gen was a loser financially. After the Volt came the Bolt. Another money loser.

So over the course of a decade plus the small EV program for GM is a money loser. And that was with govt incentives. At some point, you have to pull the plug on a program that can't turn a profit. Which is what Ford is doing too to some of the programs, mercifully. They lost $16 billion on their EV program in a shockingly short time. Again, at which point do you pull the plug?

Now look at Toyota. The really early Gen 1 Prius (1997) lost money. The Gen 2 (2003) started making money by 2004 or so. And Toyota refined the program then scaled it. And the rest is history. Many Toyota hybrids are cost parity with their ICE only counterparts. And some are even more profitable than ICE only counterpart.


As has been mentioned, Toyota wasn't making EVs because they couldn't. They've flat out said from a financial point, the margins are better on hybrids. And people still want hybrids. So they are happy to provide that while using their hybrid program as a runway into both EV technology and adoption.

And they been massively successful with this strategy.

[Johnnymac]

And yet they cancelled it.  Proves my point. 

I disagree.

They lost money on every single Volt they sold. Even the 2nd gen was a loser financially. After the Volt came the Bolt. Another money loser.

So over the course of a decade plus the small EV program for GM is a money loser. And that was with govt incentives. At some point, you have to pull the plug on a program that can't turn a profit. Which is what Ford is doing too to some of the programs, mercifully. They lost $16 billion on their EV program in a shockingly short time. Again, at which point do you pull the plug?

Now look at Toyota. The really early Gen 1 Prius (1997) lost money. The Gen 2 (2003) started making money by 2004 or so. And Toyota refined the program then scaled it. And the rest is history. Many Toyota hybrids are cost parity with their ICE only counterparts. And some are even more profitable than ICE only counterpart.


As has been mentioned, Toyota wasn't making EVs because they couldn't. They've flat out said from a financial point, the margins are better on hybrids. And people still want hybrids. So they are happy to provide that while using their hybrid program as a runway into both EV technology and adoption.

And they been massively successful with this strategy.

Didn't Toyota also say that for every EV they produced they could produce X number of PHEV's and XY number of Hybrids, so in their mind they are having a bigger impact on overall fuel economy (emissions) as other manufacturers that sell only ICE and EV vehicles.