2025 VW ID.Buzz

[Johnnymac]

Oh I don't care what he or anyone else buys (for the record all ages can see EVs as not the be all and end all, including this 43 year old male) What I stated is true in that if you really wanted to reduce your pollution footprint there are much better ways.

I think where I struggle is when someone ONLY considers EVs and do so with the guise of for the environment.  Why limit your choices and understanding the true impact of mining, refining, manufacturing, shipping, and assembly of EVs, not to mention how "green" the energy is going into the vehicle.

If my bag of Lays offended it's an exaggeration of course, but the reality is that EVs depreciate a lot more.  In fact if someone is buying an EV I always suggest buying used as you save a massive amount and they become a much more financially viable option.

[RRocket]

Decarbonization plan?

Indeed.

Our house was better-than-carbon-neutral for years and years. And this while I owned and drove my Supra, Porsches and other sports cars.

$500 a year.

[dkazzed]

I hear you on the point that EVs may not be the ultimate solution for the environment, and I agree that it's important to consider the full lifecycle impact of any vehicle, including mining, refining, and energy sources. I calculated exactly 26 tons for an EV9 on Alberta's current electrical grid. 20 years ago this would've been 39 tons. Our decarbonization efforts is about 5% decrease per year. Baby steps.



Also heard on the EV depreciation. That's always a crapshoot. A 7 passenger SUV that's reasonably priced to begin with shouldn't be as bad. I did look at used Mercedes Benz EQB and Tesla Model Y but my partner would rather have an EV9. Anyway, depreciation only truly matters if it comes time to sell.

That said, for me, there are additional reasons beyond just environmental concerns.

Since I bought my Mazda 5, we've also purchased a trailer, and neither of our current vehicles have an official tow rating in North America. So getting something bigger with towing capacity would be a practical step for us. Right now, we use the 5 because it has more seats and space, but since it's a manual, my partner can't drive it, and it would be nice to have a co-driver on road trips.

On top of that, I've been riding my bike a lot lately—so much so that I'm questioning whether we even need two cars. I rarely need to refuel mine, and I often end up filling up my partner's since I like tracking fuel data on Fuelly. The convenience of charging an EV at home would mean fewer trips just to get gas, which is an added benefit.

Being able to warm up the vehicle without the wear and tear of needlessly idling an engine — I am vehemently against remote starters. Not having to wait for the engine to warm up before going, although in reality we give it 30 seconds to circulate oil then start going gently. No more messy oil and fluid changes. Having a huge back up battery and 1800W output to power things at home in case of a power outage. Going to a much bigger vehicle while cutting our annual fuel/power budget in half.

Remember how annoying that Smart ED person was always interjecting arguments for electric vehicles when inappropriate? Don't be that gas equivalent.

[Firm]

I like the little infographic, this issue is that it's using a 16 year / 240K lifecycle. That may be the average lifecycle for an ICE vehicle, and I think it's probably similar for hybrids, but are we really thinking that EVs are lasting that long? Not a lot of real-world examples with that kinda age on them yet, and most EV's currently come with an 8-year 160K warranty on the battery....which suggests you're probably looking at 2 batteries to get to 16 years and 240K. Add another '5' points in the infographic to cover manufacturing of a second battery and you're right in line with the hybrid stats.

[dkazzed]

If one were to abuse their battery by charging to 100% and fast charging all the time, they would get to 80% capacity in the equivalent of 500 charges. That's 200,000 km. Charging to 80% and level 2 charging most of the time at minimum doubles that and more likely triples that.

Most batteries lose 5% capacity to start. VW states a net battery capacity of 86 kWh in the Buzz although the full battery capacity is 91 kWh for this reason. The degradation flattens out after that.

Article on 10 year old Teslas:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-battery-last/

There is an age factor as well. But it seems like the battery should be good for 12-15 years 400,000 km by the time it hits that 80% mark.

Another one, Tesla again as they've been on the road the longest:
https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration





From what I see with both charts, first 3 years and 60,000km there is a steeper drop off, flattens the next 5 years and 100,000 km, then the degradation happens again.

I know that the cheap EVs that had the tiny 160 km batteries (Nissan Leaf, Kia Soul EV, Ford Focus EV, VW Golf EV) were often abuse charged to 100%, so they often lasted 500 charges before they reached 80%.

[Tortoise]

Obviously the actual numbers for that infographic will depend on the electricity production. Dkaz, you still in BC?  If so, I suspect your actual emissions should be a lot less.

[Johnnymac]

You know that my issue was never about it being just an EV, but more the reasoning behind buying it (environmental), the financial ramifications (what do you think the chances of a high priced Kia EV is retaining much value down the road?), and the fact that you appear to be not considering other non-EV options.

You'd think a PHEV would be a better option, if you can do EV mode for daily commute but have the towing capacity and range to make towing a trailer easier.

[dkazzed]

Oh in the under $70k range we've looked at:

Mazda CX-90 PHEV, costs almost as much as EV9, smaller, weird trim combinations, lots of issues, 3500 lb towing capacity, just seems like they rushed the product out to market. Rather get the EV9 over this.

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, well priced, 1500 lb towing capacity though and we want 3500 lb minimum.

We didn't consider a used Volvo XC90 though, I sent one her way.

Looked at some hybrids and efficient gassers but then we'd rather keep what we have. I eventually want a forever manual car but that's very low in our priorities right now.

Obviously the actual numbers for that infographic will depend on the electricity production. Dkaz, you still in BC?  If so, I suspect your actual emissions should be a lot less.

I'm in Edmonton, 440g CO2/kWh is the number for the general Albertan grid. They have options for 15, 50, and 100% renewable energy but I want to see how they would guarantee that. Most of B.C. is 9.9g CO2/kWh, Fort Nelson is 493g CO2/kWh. We are planning on putting solar in our next house.

I like hydroelectricity and wish Alberta had more of it, but I am aware of the communities it has destroyed. Solar PV can be integrated on rooftops, wind generators apparently affect birds but vehicles are probably responsible for a lot more wildlife deaths, nuclear is clean but there are safety concerns. It's probably like air travel, very good safety record but incidents are often catastrophic.

The saying with electric vehicles is that it's not there to save the environment, it's there to save the auto industry. Electric vehicles still promote sprawl and require a huge road network. But cars will remain a necessary evil and we can always do better.

I rode 2,400 km on my bicycle last year, 2,000 of those replaced a car trip. My goal this year is overly ambitious, replace 4,500 km of car trips with bike trips, which is about a ton of CO2 saved. So far I'm at 310 km.

[RRocket]

Here's a good calculator for estimating your footprint.

It's quite thorough.

https://www.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx

[Blueprint]

The CX-90 PHEV starts at $54,900, the cheapest awd EV9 is $10k more (did not content match). Our lifetime avg is at 3.3 l/100 km, and the thing has been to Rimouski, Quebec, Boston and Ottawa. Does an even 8.0 on gas on long trips. We've had 5 or 6 recalls, but all software, so no biggie. The leaky diff and squeaky front suspension were the lone mechanical fixes, both fixed since my very early production unit. Spent the first two weeks of January with EVs, the first had nearly 50% range loss, WITH an heat pump, so there's that to consider.

[Blueprint]

There is one at the Montreal auto show

Honestly it felt like a regular minivan inside with the exception of the roof. I'm not sure what I was expecting but I'd probably get a Pacifica or Sienna.
Interestingly the Polestar vehicles had a lot more interest than what was in the VW booth.

I was in that van on Jan. 24 1 hr before the show opened to the public, so alone in that room (I was heading to my booth at L'Annuel de l'automobile). Roomier than typical minivans, this thing is HUGE! Quite the odd step up to get on board though.