I filled up the Corolla for the first time since October.
Mobil, Kenaston at Grant
Regular 87 octane: $1.401
Mobil, Kenaston at Grant, Winnipeg
87 $1.349
89 $1.499
91 $1.589
Mobil, Kenaston at Grant, Winnipeg
Filled up at $1.199 for 87.
Least expensive around S'toon is 1.289
$2.75/gal for regular in SW Tennessee. That works out to loosely $1.01/L CAD. Unlike what I was used to in Canada the gas prices here are very stable, coming up on the 2 year mark since moving down here and I don't think I've ever seen more than a 10c/gal shift in that time.
Price war in some areas of Winnipeg.
Mobil, Bison Drive, south Winnipeg
87 $1.049
89 $1.199
91 $1.289
Quote from: Bubba on Jul 04, 2025, 07:13 PMPrice war in some areas of Winnipeg.
Mobil, Bison Drive, south Winnipeg
87 $1.049
89 $1.199
91 $1.289
Only $0.24 difference between 87 & 91 seems like a steal!! I filled up last night & 87 was $1.21, while 91 was $1.54.
$1.009/L at my local Mobil. My local Mobil has been in a war with the CO-OP down the street for the past two years. Gas prices have been consistently 10c/L cheaper than the average in the rest of the city.
Now it appears the Esso down the other end of the street has also joined in. Odd though, because Esso and Mobil are essentially the same company using the same gas.
That's getting pretty cheap. It's $2.54/gal here, which is $0.81/L, but if you factor for the current exchange rate it would be $1.12CAD/L. Would be nice if it stays low for the spring/summer for some roadtrips.
Quote from: Firm on Jan 06, 2026, 11:41 AMThat's getting pretty cheap. It's $2.54/gal here, which is $0.81/L, but if you factor for the current exchange rate it would be $1.12CAD/L. Would be nice if it stays low for the spring/summer for some roadtrips.
Well Trump is trying to get Venezuela oil (illegally)....So you never know.
Quote from: RRocket on Jan 07, 2026, 05:05 AMQuote from: Firm on Jan 06, 2026, 11:41 AMThat's getting pretty cheap. It's $2.54/gal here, which is $0.81/L, but if you factor for the current exchange rate it would be $1.12CAD/L. Would be nice if it stays low for the spring/summer for some roadtrips.
Well Trump is trying to get Venezuela oil (illegally)....So you never know.
$1.299 regular, $1.499 premium at Costco
Reading economic journalists, it seems no American oil companies were consulted ahead of Trump's move. Numbers say billions and billions will need to be invested in Venezuela to get the oil out of the ground, and then again the country may only go from 1.1% world market share to 3% due to logistics. Oil sales are plateauing on the world stage. Nobody told Trump the '50s are over?
I've said it before: his 7th brankruptcy will be his greatest ever.
Paying over $2/L for diesel is getting pretty old. Good thing it's efficient.
Quote from: Tortoise on Mar 09, 2026, 06:57 PMPaying over $2/L for diesel is getting pretty old. Good thing it's efficient.
But it's not more efficient than it is expensive.
Diesel has roughly 12 percent more BTU per liter than gasoline. But here, diesel costs over 20 percent more than gasoline.
Isn't the math is upside down?
Yeah, it's still more expensive than running the gas version of the Golf wagon. But, at least I'm not filling up a diesel HD pickup.
When I bought it the historical average had diesel 10 cents/L more than RUG. At that point the diesel was cheaper to run.
Quote from: Tortoise on Mar 10, 2026, 08:31 AMYeah, it's still more expensive than running the gas version of the Golf wagon. But, at least I'm not filling up a diesel HD pickup.
When I bought it the historical average had diesel 10 cents/L more than RUG. At that point the diesel was cheaper to run.
Plus the torque....
So much torque. It's really a lovely engine. Just as powerful as it needs to be and so relaxed on the highway.
Price for regular unleaded 62 cents in Halifax as of March 12.They adjust prices Friday
Quote from: Seafoam on Mar 12, 2026, 09:53 AMPrice for regular unleaded 62 cents in Halifax as of March 12.They adjust prices Friday
I'm assuming you mean $1.62?
Yes you assume correctly. DOH :-[
I just paid 127.9 at Costco to fill up the Tundra. It was about a buck not long ago.
Quote from: Fobroader on Mar 12, 2026, 05:07 PMI just paid 127.9 at Costco to fill up the Tundra. It was about a buck not long ago.
$1.70 in Montreal
$2.22 for diesel
$1.729 for Regular at some stations in Winnipeg.
$1.67 for regular here
$1.77 this morning on my way to the gym... thought I was in Montreal for a second :D
$ 1.74 here in Halifax at the moment.
Hovering around $1.60-$1.75 in the S'toon area. Funny, went on a snowmobile trip this past week. It was a four hour drive east of S'toon to get to the destination. Prices all along the way were very consistent between $1.55 to $1.65 for the most part. We go through one small town called Canora and it was $1.35. Towns on either side of Canora were around $1.55.
An auto journo colleague posted himself filling a up a diesel Silverado, probably a press unit. Diesel was at 2.719, fill-up was around $240. Reason enough not to review trucks these days!
It's around $3.30/gal here in West TN, so around $1.05/L for regular. I filled the Escalade last night at Costco with 93 for $4.00/gal, roughly 1.27L/L. Annoying that it's up for spring/summer travel season, but relative to prices elsewhere I really can't complain.
We took a quick trip back to Ontario a few days ago and gas along the major interstates we used (I40, I65, I70, I75, I90) was pretty consistent at about $3.65/gal, which was kinda surprising, I was expecting to see more variability by region/state.
Here in the Okanagan its been bouncing between $1.63-1.79/L. Diesel is at $2.15. In Kamloops the other day and a station had diesel @ $2.59. Seems to change daily.
Regular was over $2/L in Vancouver
And my wife said it was $98 to fill the Golf, which never takes more than 50L.
Quote from: Blueprint on Mar 26, 2026, 08:12 AMAn auto journo colleague posted himself filling a up a diesel Silverado, probably a press unit. Diesel was at 2.719, fill-up was around $240. Reason enough not to review trucks these days!
I saw that on FB, I follow him! Big difference from the 500e he got recently I'm sure ;D
Up again $1.82.9 in Halifax.
Quote from: Blizzard on Mar 29, 2026, 03:58 PMQuote from: Blueprint on Mar 26, 2026, 08:12 AMAn auto journo colleague posted himself filling a up a diesel Silverado, probably a press unit. Diesel was at 2.719, fill-up was around $240. Reason enough not to review trucks these days!
I saw that on FB, I follow him! Big difference from the 500e he got recently I'm sure ;D
He actually leased the 500e, not a press car! Wondering what he did with his Bolt...
While we may not be affected in our vehicle by current gas prices, dairy and produce prices are up about 5-10%. Haven't noticed too much of an increase with meat yet. It's matter of time before general cost of non perishable food and goods goes up.
Its too bad that we live in a country without oil deposits and couldn't ever make our own gasoline, diesel, aviation fuel and such.....
Quote from: Fobroader on Apr 01, 2026, 02:33 PMIts too bad that we live in a country without oil deposits and couldn't ever make our own gasoline, diesel, aviation fuel and such.....
Not really the way that works, though, is it? If the oil sands had been nationalized or provincialized, then that's very well what could have happened. What did happen, though, is they were all privatized and bought up by American and Chinese companies. Those companies that have invested so heavily have zero interest in selling fuel at a cheaper rate to Canadians, when they can get so much more money by selling on the international market at the current commodity pricing.
I think what you're really complaining about is that the whole industry was privatized to begin with. Look to Norway for another way of doing business...
Yep, there are zero incentives to private corporations to sell to Canadians at a discounted rate.
Even if it were still crown owned, I'd rather we make as much money as possible.
Just buy shares in oil companies.
Quote from: GreatBigAbyss on Apr 07, 2026, 03:18 PMQuote from: Fobroader on Apr 01, 2026, 02:33 PMIts too bad that we live in a country without oil deposits and couldn't ever make our own gasoline, diesel, aviation fuel and such.....
Not really the way that works, though, is it? If the oil sands had been nationalized or provincialized, then that's very well what could have happened. What did happen, though, is they were all privatized and bought up by American and Chinese companies. Those companies that have invested so heavily have zero interest in selling fuel at a cheaper rate to Canadians, when they can get so much more money by selling on the international market at the current commodity pricing.
I think what you're really complaining about is that the whole industry was privatized to begin with. Look to Norway for another way of doing business...
This. Combined with the fact that Canada has extremely limited refining capabilities because refineries were (are?) bad and don't belong in our backyard.....So now we're dependent on other countries, who did build refining capabilities - with far less regard for environmental impacts than Canada would/could have, to supply.
Short-sighted virtue signaling policies have real long-term impacts....never saw that coming.
Quote from: Firm on Apr 07, 2026, 11:25 PMShort-sighted virtue signaling policies have real long-term impacts....never saw that coming.
I know the virtual signal/woke angle is a popular one. But it all falls apart when you consider the PCs were in power for a decade before the "woke Liberals". And they did nothing. And they had a majority so they could have almost literally done anything they wanted in this regard. But instead, zero.
So for your argument to hold any water, that would have to mean the PCs were also too woke to do anything with a majority.
Quote from: RRocket on Apr 08, 2026, 06:09 AMQuote from: Firm on Apr 07, 2026, 11:25 PMShort-sighted virtue signaling policies have real long-term impacts....never saw that coming.
I know the virtual signal/woke angle is a popular one. But it all falls apart when you consider the PCs were in power for a decade before the "woke Liberals". And they did nothing. And they had a majority so they could have almost literally done anything they wanted in this regard. But instead, zero.
So for your argument to hold any water, that would have to mean the PCs were also too woke to do anything with a majority.
Mulroney sold PetroCanada, it's now Suncor. IIRC PetroCanada shut down 3 refineries in the '90s
Yeah, I wasn't attempting to call out any one particular government, PCs are almost a guilty on this as the Libs. Nobody would invest in building capacity, Crown or Private, because it was viewed as such a negative thing by the general public, media, etc. We have 3+ decades of governments who missed the opportunity to identify this as something important to the country's long-term stability, and the benefits to the environment of 'doing it right' vs passing the puck to some underdeveloped country to do it.
The problem with our oil is that a lot of it is a different grade than what most of our refineries can use. To build a new refinery nowadays is a billion dollar investment. Then you have all the pollution that is produced in refining the oil (no real idea how much it does indeed produce with modern refineries, could be a lot, could be not as much as we think).
The reality is our country is a resource based economy for the most part. There is the issue with how environmental activists and policy makers have been working together to lower the amount of natural resources that our country is able to produce. That's not even mentioning the issue with a lot of the resources that we make we don't always refine into a value added product and only get a portion of the revenue "pie" from the resource.
If our country wanted to move away from natural resources they should have done a lot more investing in other areas to keep our GDP on pace with other countries.
If the private sector has no interest in building a refinery, should the government fork out the billions? If so, who would run it?
I am curious if the cost of the refinery issue is the driving issue. Canada contributes over 25 billion every year to the oil and gas sector, what's an extra billion for a refinery?
Granted there's the environmentalist resistance, but Alberta is a big place, surely they could have made it work.
Quote from: Tortoise on Apr 08, 2026, 01:21 PMIf the private sector has no interest in building a refinery, should the government fork out the billions? If so, who would run it?
I am curious if the cost of the refinery issue is the driving issue. Canada contributes over 25 billion every year to the oil and gas sector, what's an extra billion for a refinery?
Granted there's the environmentalist resistance, but Alberta is a big place, surely they could have made it work.
I would not get government at any level to fund building a refinery. In my experience Governments only go with the lowest quote when doing anything and that's why everything they touch crumbles.
I think the question is why hasn't any of those big private companies invested a billion into a new refinery is a good one. If I was to make a guess on why, I'd look back about a decade or so ago when here in little old NB a private Canadian owned oil and gas company was looking at building a second refinery. They got pretty far down the road with it also, with permits and plans all being approved.
What killed it was a couple of things. One is that everyone at the time was stating how the world was going to be moving to EV's and the demand for traditional fuel would only be going down. The second was the price of oil and the possibility of a pipeline coming east. The cost of oil dropped and the pipeline got cancelled.
While it would cost a billion dollars to build a modern refinery in Canada, it might be less in other countries and there could be lower costs associated with running a refinery in another country (cheaper labor, etc).
I think Government is in a tough spot on how to firstly get more of our natural resources refined within our borders while at the same time not increasing the cost to Canadian consumers.
Gas now over $2 at most places in the GMA, except Costco, $1.869
$1.88 now in Winnipeg. Yowzers!
Filled up the Crosstrek at my local Costco on Monday for $1.679, best I've seen in months. The Montreal Costco I drove by on Tuesday morning was at $1.799, while our local "worst offender" near the highway was at $1.929.
All of the above are bargains compared to what I payed in the Netherlands last Friday - $3.95 :o
I did the math for a reply in the c/d forums - in the Netherlands, gas is $10.86 USD per gallon. It's all relative - the US dollar has lost a lot of lustre vs the Euro, salaries / economy is proportional in the Euro zone, prices are spiking because of the wars etc. But just imagine what $10 gas would provoke in the US...
Economic collapse.
Quote from: Blueprint on Apr 30, 2026, 01:16 PMimagine what $10 gas would provoke in the US...
50 percent of the country probably wouldn't care...they are sycophants. If Trump says $10/gallon gas is good...it's good!!
Quote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:02 PMQuote from: Blueprint on Apr 30, 2026, 01:16 PMimagine what $10 gas would provoke in the US...
50 percent of the country probably wouldn't care...they are sycophants. If Trump says $10/gallon gas is good...it's good!!
That's the trouble, the World has to suffer for this BULLSHIT. >:(
Quote from: Seafoam on Apr 30, 2026, 03:17 PMQuote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:02 PMQuote from: Blueprint on Apr 30, 2026, 01:16 PMimagine what $10 gas would provoke in the US...
50 percent of the country probably wouldn't care...they are sycophants. If Trump says $10/gallon gas is good...it's good!!
That's the trouble, the World has to suffer for this BULLSHIT. >:(
"Let's cause to close the formerly completely open Strait of Hormuz, cause chaos and inflate fuel prices and potentially cause a global recession. All self inflicted."
Brilliant 5D chess....
It's not far off in some places...I paid $6.20/gal in Los Angeles about 3 weeks ago. Today I paid $5.95 in Orlando, granted that was right near the airport, so gouged for sure, but still. Rental Suburban took $97 USD and was above half a tank, lol.
Back here outside of Memphis is like $3.20/gal, nearly half of the price in those bigger metros.
Quote from: Firm on Apr 30, 2026, 03:52 PMIt's not far off in some places...I paid $6.20/gal in Los Angeles about 3 weeks ago. Today I paid $5.95 in Orlando, granted that was right near the airport, so gouged for sure, but still. Rental Suburban took $97 USD and was above half a tank, lol.
Back here outside of Memphis is like $3.20/gal, nearly half of the price in those bigger metros.
I'm scared to see the prices on the water, in marinas. They were gouging when gas was cheap!
I don't want to see what the prices are now!!
I've been worried about that too. Even last year it was something like $2.25/L. And it's a 50L round trip to the cottage and back in the big boat.
Quote from: Tortoise on Apr 30, 2026, 04:07 PMI've been worried about that too. Even last year it was something like $2.25/L. And it's a 50L round trip to the cottage and back in the big boat.
I mean, I don't worry personally, as I only have a 30L tank and fill at home.
But bigger boats or situations like yours? I don't think I'll see as many boats this summer
Could be a good year to buy a boat though ;D
I don't know. People are still buying campers, just postponing trips until gas prices settle.
Quote from: Firm on Apr 30, 2026, 05:55 PMCould be a good year to buy a boat though ;D
Quote from: Firm on Apr 30, 2026, 05:55 PMCould be a good year to buy a boat though ;D
Lol...i sold my boat last year. Not because of any bad experience but the logistics of owning one was getting to be a pita.
It's a buyers market for boats this year.
Quote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:23 PMQuote from: Seafoam on Apr 30, 2026, 03:17 PMQuote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:02 PMQuote from: Blueprint on Apr 30, 2026, 01:16 PMimagine what $10 gas would provoke in the US...
50 percent of the country probably wouldn't care...they are sycophants. If Trump says $10/gallon gas is good...it's good!!
That's the trouble, the World has to suffer for this BULLSHIT. >:(
"Let's cause to close the formerly completely open Strait of Hormuz, cause chaos and inflate fuel prices and potentially cause a global recession. All self inflicted."
Brilliant 5D chess....
The last tankers that got through the strait before shenanigans have now unloaded. Within a couple of months the US will start running out of diesel, things will stop moving, tractors run on diesel, stock up on beans and rice now...
Quote from: blur911 on May 09, 2026, 06:08 PMQuote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:23 PMQuote from: Seafoam on Apr 30, 2026, 03:17 PMQuote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:02 PMQuote from: Blueprint on Apr 30, 2026, 01:16 PMimagine what $10 gas would provoke in the US...
50 percent of the country probably wouldn't care...they are sycophants. If Trump says $10/gallon gas is good...it's good!!
That's the trouble, the World has to suffer for this BULLSHIT. >:(
"Let's cause to close the formerly completely open Strait of Hormuz, cause chaos and inflate fuel prices and potentially cause a global recession. All self inflicted."
Brilliant 5D chess....
The last tankers that got through the strait before shenanigans have now unloaded. Within a couple of months the US will start running out of diesel, things will stop moving, tractors run on diesel, stock up on beans and rice now...
Maybe this war isn't just about money and resources but to impact the prices to trigger people to buy EVs instead of ICE vehicles. Seems a bit extreme but if you have met some EV owners it isn't too far out of character.
Quote from: Johnnymac on May 09, 2026, 07:28 PMQuote from: blur911 on May 09, 2026, 06:08 PMQuote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:23 PMQuote from: Seafoam on Apr 30, 2026, 03:17 PMQuote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:02 PMQuote from: Blueprint on Apr 30, 2026, 01:16 PMimagine what $10 gas would provoke in the US...
50 percent of the country probably wouldn't care...they are sycophants. If Trump says $10/gallon gas is good...it's good!!
That's the trouble, the World has to suffer for this BULLSHIT. >:(
"Let's cause to close the formerly completely open Strait of Hormuz, cause chaos and inflate fuel prices and potentially cause a global recession. All self inflicted."
Brilliant 5D chess....
The last tankers that got through the strait before shenanigans have now unloaded. Within a couple of months the US will start running out of diesel, things will stop moving, tractors run on diesel, stock up on beans and rice now...
Maybe this war isn't just about money and resources but to impact the prices to trigger people to buy EVs instead of ICE vehicles. Seems a bit extreme but if you have met some EV owners it isn't too far out of character.
We're talking about Shitler, he's all for oil company profits and pumping and dumping. Him and his family are making a fortune
Quote from: blur911 on May 10, 2026, 11:14 AMQuote from: Johnnymac on May 09, 2026, 07:28 PMQuote from: blur911 on May 09, 2026, 06:08 PMQuote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:23 PMQuote from: Seafoam on Apr 30, 2026, 03:17 PMQuote from: RRocket on Apr 30, 2026, 03:02 PMQuote from: Blueprint on Apr 30, 2026, 01:16 PMimagine what $10 gas would provoke in the US...
50 percent of the country probably wouldn't care...they are sycophants. If Trump says $10/gallon gas is good...it's good!!
That's the trouble, the World has to suffer for this BULLSHIT. >:(
"Let's cause to close the formerly completely open Strait of Hormuz, cause chaos and inflate fuel prices and potentially cause a global recession. All self inflicted."
Brilliant 5D chess....
The last tankers that got through the strait before shenanigans have now unloaded. Within a couple of months the US will start running out of diesel, things will stop moving, tractors run on diesel, stock up on beans and rice now...
Maybe this war isn't just about money and resources but to impact the prices to trigger people to buy EVs instead of ICE vehicles. Seems a bit extreme but if you have met some EV owners it isn't too far out of character.
We're talking about Shitler, he's all for oil company profits and pumping and dumping. Him and his family are making a fortune
Agreed fully on that one. I'm sure many have had enough of giving money to the oil companies.There will be few that switch if they can afford it.
Do you think the decisions of the Big 3 domestic automakers to A) stop making cars, and B) reduce investment in EV/Hybrids, will come back to bite them in the ass? Again? like it did in 2008/2009?
It's like Ford and GM and Chrysler don't learn their lesson.
Quote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 10, 2026, 12:46 PMDo you think the decisions of the Big 3 domestic automakers to A) stop making cars, and B) reduce investment in EV/Hybrids, will come back to bite them in the ass? Again? like it did in 2008/2009?
It's like Ford and GM and Chrysler don't learn their lesson.
Literally the only reason they could end up regretting it is if this "war" extends and the price of fuel stay high for an extended period of time.
The reality is that EVs just aren't something a lot of buyers want, at least not yet. Maybe once they are the same price, offer decent range in all conditions, and the infrastructure is there to support the millions of people who rent their home and don't have access to a charger there.
It could happen. And even if the Strait of Hormuz were to open fully tomorrow, the oil economy has been shaken for many years. I expect price of gas to stay high for a few more years at least.
I still think it's short-sighted thinking from the Big 3.
You might feel differently if you invested billions into vehicles that haven't recouped the cost to develop them.
^^^^But they already invested the money into the platforms. And then cancelled them. That money's gone now.
Quote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 08:46 AM^^^^But they already invested the money into the platforms. And then cancelled them. That money's gone now.
It's true, but that tends to be how the Big 3 treat innovation...Make the big investment up front, run it just long enough until it starts to get close to being decent, then retreat and drop it. Dust the tech off 10 years later to compete. t's been that way for 40+ years.
Glad I bought some oil stocks when the price was in the shitter several months ago. Ironically, I took some gains from them to buy a more fuel efficient car. ;D
Quote from: Firm on May 11, 2026, 10:08 AMQuote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 08:46 AM^^^^But they already invested the money into the platforms. And then cancelled them. That money's gone now.
It's true, but that tends to be how the Big 3 treat innovation...Make the big investment up front, run it just long enough until it starts to get close to being decent, then retreat and drop it. Dust the tech off 10 years later to compete. t's been that way for 40+ years.
It's like they looked at the way Toyota has become so successful and then they decided to do it the complete opposite way.
Toyota has been continuously improving their hybrid drives over the past 30 years, to the point where it's now fully mature, has been accepted by the buying masses, and is in practically every vehicle that they sell.
Honestly, having experienced it myself now to some degree, there's an element of the American shareholder's strong desire for immediate short-term results that in too many cases outweighs long-term strategic planning. Japanese companies are the other way, long term sustainable growth is better understood and further prioritized. NGK is a great example, they took decades, but now they absolutely dominate the Spark Plug market, both OE & aftermarket.
Quote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 11:16 AMQuote from: Firm on May 11, 2026, 10:08 AMQuote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 08:46 AM^^^^But they already invested the money into the platforms. And then cancelled them. That money's gone now.
It's true, but that tends to be how the Big 3 treat innovation...Make the big investment up front, run it just long enough until it starts to get close to being decent, then retreat and drop it. Dust the tech off 10 years later to compete. t's been that way for 40+ years.
It's like they looked at the way Toyota has become so successful and then they decided to do it the complete opposite way.
Toyota has been continuously improving their hybrid drives over the past 30 years, to the point where it's now fully mature, has been accepted by the buying masses, and is in practically every vehicle that they sell.
100% how Toyota has been handling the transition from larger displacement engines to hybrid and some EV/PHEV's mixed in has been a real masterclass in predicting how the buying public will desire their vehicles. While their current lineup might not have worked back 20 years ago (speaking about the turbo 4 in the bigger stuff, and the hybrid only Camry/RAV4) it is perfect for today's buying public and it clearly shows.
Are Musk and Trump friends again?
Quote from: Johnnymac on May 11, 2026, 12:11 PMQuote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 11:16 AMQuote from: Firm on May 11, 2026, 10:08 AMQuote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 08:46 AM^^^^But they already invested the money into the platforms. And then cancelled them. That money's gone now.
It's true, but that tends to be how the Big 3 treat innovation...Make the big investment up front, run it just long enough until it starts to get close to being decent, then retreat and drop it. Dust the tech off 10 years later to compete. t's been that way for 40+ years.
It's like they looked at the way Toyota has become so successful and then they decided to do it the complete opposite way.
Toyota has been continuously improving their hybrid drives over the past 30 years, to the point where it's now fully mature, has been accepted by the buying masses, and is in practically every vehicle that they sell.
100% how Toyota has been handling the transition from larger displacement engines to hybrid and some EV/PHEV's mixed in has been a real masterclass in predicting how the buying public will desire their vehicles. While their current lineup might not have worked back 20 years ago (speaking about the turbo 4 in the bigger stuff, and the hybrid only Camry/RAV4) it is perfect for today's buying public and it clearly shows.
Yup, even me, a real die hard V8 guy, would 100% have zero issue with buying a Hybrid Toyota product, plug in or not. I can't really see myself going full ev, minus lawn equipment ;D , but a hybrid has absolutely no drawbacks compared to an ICE so its a no brainer.
Having driven a 13 year old Chevy Volt off and on for the past few years with ZERO problems I can say with certainty I'd buy a PHEV without hesitation. I get 45 km of EV range (enough usually for my daily chores) and don't hesitate to take long trips knowing the ICE generator is there. I could only imagine how much better a new Prius is compared to the old Chevy. If GM had continued to refine and improve the Voltec technology I'm sure they'd have a class leading product like Toyota. My fancy pants new scanner shows all 96 hybrid battery cells are still showing near perfect health, car now has 220,000 km.
And yet they cancelled it. Proves my point.
The Volt was a fantastic product. As good as my Prius Prime, against which it competed? I don't know. Hybrid efficiency wasn't as good as the Prius, but it had a longer EV range, so pluses and minuses. Point is, it was competitive. And it turns out to be a reliable vehicle, still extremely sought after.
And GM fucking dropped the drivetrain outright.
Quote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 08:59 PMAnd yet they cancelled it. Proves my point.
The Volt was a fantastic product. As good as my Prius Prime, against which it competed? I don't know. Hybrid efficiency wasn't as good as the Prius, but it had a longer EV range, so pluses and minuses. Point is, it was competitive. And it turns out to be a reliable vehicle, still extremely sought after.
And GM fucking dropped the drivetrain outright.
You say it proves your point, and I'm not disputing the goodness of the Volt, but you both ignore the cost of development and if they actually recouped the cost of that. I'd be willing to bet that they cancelled it due to the cost benefit analysis that showed it was a loser on the financial sheets.
Quote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 08:59 PMAnd yet they cancelled it. Proves my point.
I disagree.
They lost money on every single Volt they sold. Even the 2nd gen was a loser financially. After the Volt came the Bolt. Another money loser.
So over the course of a decade plus the small EV program for GM is a money loser. And that was with govt incentives. At some point, you have to pull the plug on a program that can't turn a profit. Which is what Ford is doing too to some of the programs, mercifully. They lost $16 billion on their EV program in a shockingly short time. Again, at which point do you pull the plug?
Now look at Toyota. The really early Gen 1 Prius (1997) lost money. The Gen 2 (2003) started making money by 2004 or so. And Toyota refined the program then scaled it. And the rest is history. Many Toyota hybrids are cost parity with their ICE only counterparts. And some are even more profitable than ICE only counterpart.
As has been mentioned, Toyota wasn't making EVs because they couldn't. They've flat out said from a financial point, the margins are better on hybrids. And people still want hybrids. So they are happy to provide that while using their hybrid program as a runway into both EV technology and adoption.
And they been massively successful with this strategy.
Quote from: RRocket on May 12, 2026, 07:25 AMQuote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 11, 2026, 08:59 PMAnd yet they cancelled it. Proves my point.
I disagree.
They lost money on every single Volt they sold. Even the 2nd gen was a loser financially. After the Volt came the Bolt. Another money loser.
So over the course of a decade plus the small EV program for GM is a money loser. And that was with govt incentives. At some point, you have to pull the plug on a program that can't turn a profit. Which is what Ford is doing too to some of the programs, mercifully. They lost $16 billion on their EV program in a shockingly short time. Again, at which point do you pull the plug?
Now look at Toyota. The really early Gen 1 Prius (1997) lost money. The Gen 2 (2003) started making money by 2004 or so. And Toyota refined the program then scaled it. And the rest is history. Many Toyota hybrids are cost parity with their ICE only counterparts. And some are even more profitable than ICE only counterpart.
As has been mentioned, Toyota wasn't making EVs because they couldn't. They've flat out said from a financial point, the margins are better on hybrids. And people still want hybrids. So they are happy to provide that while using their hybrid program as a runway into both EV technology and adoption.
And they been massively successful with this strategy.
Didn't Toyota also say that for every EV they produced they could produce X number of PHEV's and XY number of Hybrids, so in their mind they are having a bigger impact on overall fuel economy (emissions) as other manufacturers that sell only ICE and EV vehicles.
I think it was with the battery materials needed for a single EV, you could build 5 PHEVs and 50 HEVs or something. Toyota then becoming 2nd to Tesla in BEV sales was not on my bingo card.
Honestly, people should look to bicycling if possible. I put 6,900 km on my bicycles last year. That alone cut out a tonne of CO2 emissions.
It was 100 HEVs, or 10 PHEV's, or 1 EV, given the same amount of battery material.
I think the average BEV, PHEV, and HEV battery is about 70 kWh, 14 kWh, and 1.4 kWh though.
Quote from: dkazzed on May 12, 2026, 09:46 AMHonestly, people should look to bicycling if possible.
Nope, never.
Quote from: RRocket on May 12, 2026, 03:56 PMNope, never.
You live out in the boonies, you're excepted.
Quote from: dkazzed on May 12, 2026, 07:49 PMQuote from: RRocket on May 12, 2026, 03:56 PMNope, never.
You live out in the boonies, you're excepted.
The climate here in summer is usually near 100 percent humidity every day...coupled with 80+ degree temps.
You'd have to shower when you arrive at work because you'd be soaked head to toe...but all of the cyclists at work didn't and pretended they didn't need to.
Was disgusting.
The climate out your way is much better for this.
E-scooters. They're absolutely everywhere here.
Quote from: Revelations on May 12, 2026, 11:16 PME-scooters. They're absolutely everywhere here.
I have one.
It's terrifying. It goes 40km/h. Which feels like 400 on one of these.
I have an e-Bike, it doesn't have a throttle but it still takes 1/3 to 2/3 of the load off me depending on assist setting. If I ride my pedal bike, I prefer taking it on the train to work and then riding home. We have amazing shower facilities at the office but I prefer just getting in and working.
eScooters are still prohibited in many jurisdiction with no real rhyme or reason. Cops typically won't ticket you as long as you aren't being a jerk and/or going 100 down a freeway.
Quote from: dkazzed on May 13, 2026, 11:40 AMI have an e-Bike, it doesn't have a throttle but it still takes 1/3 to 2/3 of the load off me depending on assist setting. If I ride my pedal bike, I prefer taking it on the train to work and then riding home. We have amazing shower facilities at the office but I prefer just getting in and working.
eScooters are still prohibited in many jurisdiction with no real rhyme or reason. Cops typically won't ticket you as long as you aren't being a jerk and/or going 100 down a freeway.
We have those Bird scooters all over here.
Commercial scooter rentals are allowed to exist because they have to comply with bylaws. They have GPS activated slow and no go zones.
Costco today: $1.879 regular, $2.079 premium. Other local gas stations are at $2.019 for regular (Montreal's South Shore).
A buddy of mine, in Calgary, is complaining about gas prices, I think he said they are in the mid 180s.....he drives a Ram TRX ::) I told him I would swap his straight across for my very fuel efficient Tundra ;D
Nobody forced him to buy that $130 000 gas guzzling truck that he probably uses as a mall crawler.
Quote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 15, 2026, 02:47 PMNobody forced him to buy that $130 000 gas guzzling truck that he probably uses as a mall crawler.
No, but damn does it sound good when you get on the loud pedal.
I'm sure it does.
For what it's worth, I haven't complained one single time about high gas prices...
^ wow, kudos.
Quote from: Fobroader on May 15, 2026, 02:56 PMQuote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 15, 2026, 02:47 PMNobody forced him to buy that $130 000 gas guzzling truck that he probably uses as a mall crawler.
No, but damn does it sound good when you get on the loud pedal.
Literally, the only thing that truck has going for it.
Quote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 15, 2026, 03:23 PMI'm sure it does.
For what it's worth, I haven't complained one single time about high gas prices...
Neither have I. I just find it funny someone with a 700hp, V8 supercharged pickup didn't think that it would be that expensive to drive to work.
Quote from: RRocket on May 15, 2026, 04:01 PMQuote from: Fobroader on May 15, 2026, 02:56 PMQuote from: GreatBigAbyss on May 15, 2026, 02:47 PMNobody forced him to buy that $130 000 gas guzzling truck that he probably uses as a mall crawler.
No, but damn does it sound good when you get on the loud pedal.
Literally, the only thing that truck has going for it.
I'm not a fan, but it does sound freaking awesome. He got it as the Raptor R was too far away and they wanted dealer markup on it.
These high gas prices certainly don't impact us that much, but we drive all fuel efficient 4 bangers and between 3 vehicles we might drive 25,000kms per year.
What will hurt is literally every other thing we consume will be impacted by the price of fuel and hence another big inflation period is probably upon us. Doesn't help that both me and my wife are at the top of our pay range with only two 1% cost of living increases per year for the next few. Our buying power is being eroded.
Quote from: Johnnymac on May 15, 2026, 05:37 PMThese high gas prices certainly don't impact us that much, but we drive all fuel efficient 4 bangers and between 3 vehicles we might drive 25,000kms per year.
What will hurt is literally every other thing we consume will be impacted by the price of fuel and hence another big inflation period is probably upon us. Doesn't help that both me and my wife are at the top of our pay range with only two 1% cost of living increases per year for the next few. Our buying power is being eroded.
Thats what ticks me off about higher prices, it affects everyone even if you take rollerblades to work.
Quote from: Fobroader on May 15, 2026, 05:47 PMQuote from: Johnnymac on May 15, 2026, 05:37 PMThese high gas prices certainly don't impact us that much, but we drive all fuel efficient 4 bangers and between 3 vehicles we might drive 25,000kms per year.
What will hurt is literally every other thing we consume will be impacted by the price of fuel and hence another big inflation period is probably upon us. Doesn't help that both me and my wife are at the top of our pay range with only two 1% cost of living increases per year for the next few. Our buying power is being eroded.
Thats what ticks me off about higher prices, it affects everyone even if you take rollerblades to work.
Yes, the low income people who don't even own a car are feeling the impact a lot more than most people.