So Canadian VW dealers have received their demo 2025 ID.Buzz, it's no secret what their cost and range is but let's focus on the positives first.
At first glance, it looks good and it's big. It's actually shorter than a mid size sedan but it is one of the tallest passenger vehicles on the market. The front wheels and rear wheels are far apart enough to have their own postal code. This translates to a heck of a lot of passenger room. I didn't take a picture but with me sitting in the first row, my 6'1" self can sit cross legged in the second AND third row. I thought the third row as well as second row seats slid fore/aft to provide more cargo room but I didn't check this out.
The interior finish is what you would expect with a modern Volkswagen, near premium look and feel, which is good because that price tag needs to be justified and at least for my partner, it does. My partner noted when sitting in a Kia EV9 Land "this interior feels cheaper than $70,000".
Also justifying the price tag is that it's a loaded model to start, presumedly with less equipped less expensive models to come in the future. But in this one trim level, heads up display, surround view camera, Harman Kardon stereo, heated ventilated and massaging first row seats, heated ventilated outboard second row seats, power doors and lift gate with a surprisingly responsive kick sensor. Seats are vegan leather and they feel like the real thing, but the heated steering wheel is real leather apparently while they source a new vegan leather supplier for that.
They have the same capacitive controls "plaguing" other VWs but honestly with my test drive of the ID.4, I had no complaints. The automatic climate control is set and forget, the heated and ventilated seats are always on the display, heck I don't even mind the single set of window operators where you have to hit the rear button to operate the back windows. I don't have driving impressions of the Buzz yet but I found in my drive of the ID.4 that the driver assist functions are a lot more intuitive in the VW vs. Kia and seeing how my partner will largely be driving it, that's a huge deal.
Technically speaking, we are lined up for a 7 seater single motor RWD with a range of 377km and tow capacity of 2600 lb. The 4Motion with the dual motor set up goes down to 6 seats and 372km, but bumps up tow capacity to 3500 lb as well as HP. Both options come standard with three pairs of roof rack mounts for flexibility, a retractable tow hitch, 20" wheels, LED lights all around, 91 kWh natter (86 usable), 200 kW fast charge capability, and 26 minute 10-80% charge time. The price is $80622 inclusive of everything except tax and dealer add ons, and the only options are two tone paint ($1500), electrochromic sunroof ($2000), and 4Motion ($5,500) More specs here: https://www.vw.ca/idhub/content/dam/onehub_pkw/importers/ca/2024/en/showroom/buyers-guide/MY25_BG_IDBuzz_EN.pdf
Some photos from West Edmonton VW:
(https://i.imgur.com/of3Xm1C.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MZAFApp.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ga9QZqV.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/knXVAVo.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4qfZfJm.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y8oZgEK.jpeg)
I won't poop on your guys dream, so I hope it exceeds your expectations and you get many happy trouble free miles on it.
I haven't seen one in person yet but I know our dealer has one in their showroom.
Oh this is all pending a deal that makes sense to us. This is totally a want, not a need.
There was an identical model at my VW dealership when I got the oil changed in the golf. It was outside, but I was able to walk around it. I love the looks and the practicality is off the charts.
After spending a week with a Tesla in MTL, I am on board with the daily EV experience. One foot driving, warm cabin, instan torque, I enjoyed all of it. I would enjoy it even more without the "Tesla" experience.
There seems to be one at each of our bigger VW dealers here in NB. Full jam models of course. This one is in Saint John, the one here is blue.
https://www.facebook.com/share/15sW7xVAca/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Something you might be very interested in as I think I remember you mentioning your interest in the RWD model.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a63305277/2025-volkswagen-id-buzz-rwd-test/
The one in the press fleet here is identical to what you've posted - probably the launch config?
There is one at the Montreal auto show
Honestly it felt like a regular minivan inside with the exception of the roof. I'm not sure what I was expecting but I'd probably get a Pacifica or Sienna.
Interestingly the Polestar vehicles had a lot more interest than what was in the VW booth.
(https://i.postimg.cc/p9r0wCBY/IMG-20250117-125338.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9r0wCBY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7GTK6Ld5/IMG-20250117-125347.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7GTK6Ld5)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ff6PNSWt/IMG-20250117-125353.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ff6PNSWt)
We're getting our deposit back. The original dealer decided to dick us around with "mandatory" accessories and addons at 5x the price. Another dealer is trying to win our business with no markup and is even waiving dealer admin fee, but we're a little jaded at the moment. Might go EV9. Might wait. Still in talks.
EV9 is pretty sweet.
My colleague who has 4 young kids has one and loves it.
Why exactly are you hell bent on an EV?
Quote from: Careener on Jan 24, 2025, 11:46 AMEV9 is pretty sweet.
My colleague who has 4 young kids has one and loves it.
It's a great family vehicle.
Quote from: Johnnymac on Jan 24, 2025, 05:50 PMWhy exactly are you hell bent on an EV?
It will work great for our family and is in line with our long term decarbonization plans. If not this year then the next few years.
Decarbonization plan? Buy a hybrid and go vegan, you will have a greater impact on pollution, you'll save money on buying a more traditional vehicle, resale value will be more than a bag of Lays, and your families health will improve exponentially.
I'm really curious why people, particularly over 50s, are so offended by our decision to buy an EV? We're buying it, not you.
Quote from: dkazzed on Jan 25, 2025, 09:56 AMI'm really curious why people, particularly over 50s, are so offended by our decision to buy an EV? We're buying it, not you.
Agreed. Just because you personally don't like EVs, doesn't mean they're not a valid and great option for a ton of people. I can't imagine getting so wound up and offended over someone else's purchase preferences.
Oh I don't care what he or anyone else buys (for the record all ages can see EVs as not the be all and end all, including this 43 year old male) What I stated is true in that if you really wanted to reduce your pollution footprint there are much better ways.
I think where I struggle is when someone ONLY considers EVs and do so with the guise of for the environment. Why limit your choices and understanding the true impact of mining, refining, manufacturing, shipping, and assembly of EVs, not to mention how "green" the energy is going into the vehicle.
If my bag of Lays offended it's an exaggeration of course, but the reality is that EVs depreciate a lot more. In fact if someone is buying an EV I always suggest buying used as you save a massive amount and they become a much more financially viable option.
Quote from: Johnnymac on Jan 25, 2025, 05:35 AMDecarbonization plan?
Indeed.
Our house was better-than-carbon-neutral for years and years. And this while I owned and drove my Supra, Porsches and other sports cars.
$500 a year.
I hear you on the point that EVs may not be the ultimate solution for the environment, and I agree that it's important to consider the full lifecycle impact of any vehicle, including mining, refining, and energy sources. I calculated exactly 26 tons for an EV9 on Alberta's current electrical grid. 20 years ago this would've been 39 tons. Our decarbonization efforts is about 5% decrease per year. Baby steps.
(https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/60ce1b7dd21cd5b42639ff42/6526ab22279b11a1633b92db_lifecycle-emissions-evs-vs-gas.webp)
Also heard on the EV depreciation. That's always a crapshoot. A 7 passenger SUV that's reasonably priced to begin with shouldn't be as bad. I did look at used Mercedes Benz EQB and Tesla Model Y but my partner would rather have an EV9. Anyway, depreciation only truly matters if it comes time to sell.
That said, for me, there are additional reasons beyond just environmental concerns.
Since I bought my Mazda 5, we've also purchased a trailer, and neither of our current vehicles have an official tow rating in North America. So getting something bigger with towing capacity would be a practical step for us. Right now, we use the 5 because it has more seats and space, but since it's a manual, my partner can't drive it, and it would be nice to have a co-driver on road trips.
On top of that, I've been riding my bike a lot lately—so much so that I'm questioning whether we even need two cars. I rarely need to refuel mine, and I often end up filling up my partner's since I like tracking fuel data on Fuelly. The convenience of charging an EV at home would mean fewer trips just to get gas, which is an added benefit.
Being able to warm up the vehicle without the wear and tear of needlessly idling an engine — I am vehemently against remote starters. Not having to wait for the engine to warm up before going, although in reality we give it 30 seconds to circulate oil then start going gently. No more messy oil and fluid changes. Having a huge back up battery and 1800W output to power things at home in case of a power outage. Going to a much bigger vehicle while cutting our annual fuel/power budget in half.
Remember how annoying that Smart ED person was always interjecting arguments for electric vehicles when inappropriate? Don't be that gas equivalent.
I like the little infographic, this issue is that it's using a 16 year / 240K lifecycle. That may be the average lifecycle for an ICE vehicle, and I think it's probably similar for hybrids, but are we really thinking that EVs are lasting that long? Not a lot of real-world examples with that kinda age on them yet, and most EV's currently come with an 8-year 160K warranty on the battery....which suggests you're probably looking at 2 batteries to get to 16 years and 240K. Add another '5' points in the infographic to cover manufacturing of a second battery and you're right in line with the hybrid stats.
If one were to abuse their battery by charging to 100% and fast charging all the time, they would get to 80% capacity in the equivalent of 500 charges. That's 200,000 km. Charging to 80% and level 2 charging most of the time at minimum doubles that and more likely triples that.
Most batteries lose 5% capacity to start. VW states a net battery capacity of 86 kWh in the Buzz although the full battery capacity is 91 kWh for this reason. The degradation flattens out after that.
Article on 10 year old Teslas:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-battery-last/
There is an age factor as well. But it seems like the battery should be good for 12-15 years 400,000 km by the time it hits that 80% mark.
Another one, Tesla again as they've been on the road the longest:
https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration
(https://res.cloudinary.com/nimblefins/image/upload/c_limit,dpr_2.0,f_auto,h_1600,q_auto,w_1600/v1/UK/autoinsurance/tesla_battery_by_age_3)
(https://res.cloudinary.com/nimblefins/image/upload/c_limit,dpr_2.0,f_auto,h_1600,q_auto,w_1600/v1/UK/autoinsurance/tesla_battery_mileage_4)
From what I see with both charts, first 3 years and 60,000km there is a steeper drop off, flattens the next 5 years and 100,000 km, then the degradation happens again.
I know that the cheap EVs that had the tiny 160 km batteries (Nissan Leaf, Kia Soul EV, Ford Focus EV, VW Golf EV) were often abuse charged to 100%, so they often lasted 500 charges before they reached 80%.
Obviously the actual numbers for that infographic will depend on the electricity production. Dkaz, you still in BC? If so, I suspect your actual emissions should be a lot less.
(https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/images/bc-fg02-lg.png)
You know that my issue was never about it being just an EV, but more the reasoning behind buying it (environmental), the financial ramifications (what do you think the chances of a high priced Kia EV is retaining much value down the road?), and the fact that you appear to be not considering other non-EV options.
You'd think a PHEV would be a better option, if you can do EV mode for daily commute but have the towing capacity and range to make towing a trailer easier.
Oh in the under $70k range we've looked at:
Mazda CX-90 PHEV, costs almost as much as EV9, smaller, weird trim combinations, lots of issues, 3500 lb towing capacity, just seems like they rushed the product out to market. Rather get the EV9 over this.
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, well priced, 1500 lb towing capacity though and we want 3500 lb minimum.
We didn't consider a used Volvo XC90 though, I sent one her way.
Looked at some hybrids and efficient gassers but then we'd rather keep what we have. I eventually want a forever manual car but that's very low in our priorities right now.
Quote from: Tortoise on Jan 27, 2025, 09:53 AMObviously the actual numbers for that infographic will depend on the electricity production. Dkaz, you still in BC? If so, I suspect your actual emissions should be a lot less.
I'm in Edmonton, 440g CO2/kWh is the number for the general Albertan grid. They have options for 15, 50, and 100% renewable energy but I want to see how they would guarantee that. Most of B.C. is 9.9g CO2/kWh, Fort Nelson is 493g CO2/kWh. We are planning on putting solar in our next house.
I like hydroelectricity and wish Alberta had more of it, but I am aware of the communities it has destroyed. Solar PV can be integrated on rooftops, wind generators apparently affect birds but vehicles are probably responsible for a lot more wildlife deaths, nuclear is clean but there are safety concerns. It's probably like air travel, very good safety record but incidents are often catastrophic.
The saying with electric vehicles is that it's not there to save the environment, it's there to save the auto industry. Electric vehicles still promote sprawl and require a huge road network. But cars will remain a necessary evil and we can always do better.
I rode 2,400 km on my bicycle last year, 2,000 of those replaced a car trip. My goal this year is overly ambitious, replace 4,500 km of car trips with bike trips, which is about a ton of CO2 saved. So far I'm at 310 km.
Here's a good calculator for estimating your footprint.
It's quite thorough.
https://www.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx
The CX-90 PHEV starts at $54,900, the cheapest awd EV9 is $10k more (did not content match). Our lifetime avg is at 3.3 l/100 km, and the thing has been to Rimouski, Quebec, Boston and Ottawa. Does an even 8.0 on gas on long trips. We've had 5 or 6 recalls, but all software, so no biggie. The leaky diff and squeaky front suspension were the lone mechanical fixes, both fixed since my very early production unit. Spent the first two weeks of January with EVs, the first had nearly 50% range loss, WITH an heat pump, so there's that to consider.
Quote from: Careener on Jan 20, 2025, 08:19 AMThere is one at the Montreal auto show
Honestly it felt like a regular minivan inside with the exception of the roof. I'm not sure what I was expecting but I'd probably get a Pacifica or Sienna.
Interestingly the Polestar vehicles had a lot more interest than what was in the VW booth.
(https://i.postimg.cc/p9r0wCBY/IMG-20250117-125338.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9r0wCBY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7GTK6Ld5/IMG-20250117-125347.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7GTK6Ld5)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ff6PNSWt/IMG-20250117-125353.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ff6PNSWt)
I was in that van on Jan. 24 1 hr before the show opened to the public, so alone in that room (I was heading to my booth at L'Annuel de l'automobile). Roomier than typical minivans, this thing is HUGE! Quite the odd step up to get on board though.